Jul 27, 2025

Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man

  (Part II) Oko Sermon for June 2005 by Rev Shogu Kimura 




Ever since I began to study the Law handed down from Shakyamuni Buddha and undertook the practice of the Buddhist teachings, I have believed it is most important to understand one’s obligations to others, and made it my first duty to repay such debts of kindness. In this world, we owe four debts of gratitude. One who understands this is worthy to be called human, while one who does not is no more than a beast.” As I wish to help my father and mother in their next existence and repay the debt that I owe to my country, I am willing to lay down my life, simply because I understand the debt that I owe them and for no other reason.

(Gosho, p. 399; MWND-5 p. 81)

Good morning everyone. Today, on this occasion of the June Oko sermon in our expression of gratitude to our master Nichiren Daishonin, I have sincerely recited the sutras and chanted Daimoku together with you. Moreover, I have sincerely prayed for you to eliminate your sins and negative karma from this and infinite past lifetimes; for you to redouble your faith; for you to enjoy a safe and long life; for peace and harmony to reign in your home; for all matters to proceed forth smoothly; and for the successful achievement of all your great objectives in this and future existences. I am certain that the Daishonin would be truly pleased to see so many of you in attendance today.

The gosho on which we are focusing today is the “Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man” (Shogu mondo sho). The date of the gosho is unclear. Based on its contents, however, the gosho is considered to have been written in approximately the 5th year of Bun’ei (1268), prior to the Daishonin’s exile to Sado. The person to whom this gosho is addressed is also uncertain, but it seems to have been written to an individual of samurai-warrior rank.

As the title shows, this gosho takes a question-and-answer format between an unenlightened man and a sage. It consists of two volumes.

In the first volume, the sage explained that, regardless of religion, all doctrines other than the Lotus Sutra would lead all people to descend into the evil paths and that the Lotus Sutra, alone, was the true teaching representing the true purpose of the advent of Shakyamuni. In this way, the sage denounced the Pure Land and Shingon sects.

In the second volume, the sage denounced the Zen sect. Thereafter, he indicated that the Lotus Sutra, indeed, signified the direct path to the enlightenment of all mankind. The unenlightened man, holding many doubts, listened to the words of the sage and understood the True Law. He further understood the importance of practicing the daimoku of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and of denouncing all slanders against the Law. This volume clearly presented the process in which the unenlightened man cultivated his sincere devotion to the Mystic Law.

I have just presented you with a brief summary of the gosho, as it leads up to the segment on which we are focusing today.

During his lifetime, the Daishonin lived in a volatile environment. In the Shoka period (around 1257), the people often experienced large earthquakes and destruction caused by high winds and rains. To make matters worse, there were frequent famines and epidemics that took the lives of large numbers of people. All individuals experienced a heightened sense of uncertainty, and the unenlightened man who appears in this gosho exemplifies one such individual.

This sense of uncertainty was particularly heightened when the people were forced to face the reality of death. They were witness to the deaths of young people and children. They saw that men and women died in their prime, leaving orphan children. When we imagine the plight of these people, we can understand the tremendous suffering they experienced. This experience was traumatic both for those who died and those who were left behind. It was the natural way of this changeable world that people would be forced, without fail, to depart from those whom they have encountered. There was no one who was not saddened by such forced separation from his loved ones. However, people, in general, did not give much thought to death, as they were completely influenced by their worldly desires and were repeatedly living through the transmigration in the six paths. Thus, they lived a truly barren and purposeless life.

As the unenlightened man came face to face with death, he continued to query the conditions of his own life. He wondered, with great pain, how he could find solace amidst the suffering of the uncertainties of life. This gosho commenced with the questions of this plight, set forth by the unenlightened man. He asked questions concerning the truth and heresy of Buddhism, and the sage presented clear responses to his every query.

The unenlightened man here represented a common mortal who studied non-Buddhist doctrines and who was completely ignorant of the Buddhist perspectives on nature. He was amazed by the uncertainties of the world. In search of True Buddhism, he studied the doctrines of the Ritsu, Nembutsu, Shingon, and Zen sects, but he was unable to experience full satisfaction. As a result, he retreated into the deep mountains. However, in the end, he finally met a sage who taught him about the practice of the Lotus Sutra. The sage explained that the doctrines of the other sects were all heretical and totally divorced from the true objective of the Buddha. He further explained that the Lotus Sutra, alone, represented the path to enlightenment. The sage instructed the unenlightened man to denounce heresy and to achieve enlightenment through chanting the Mystic Law.

The passage on which we focused today is set forth in the following context:

Then the unenlightened man said, "Listening to the teachings and admonitions of a sage like you, I find that the misunderstandings I have labored under in recent days are all suddenly dispelled. It is as though inherent wisdom had awakened within me. When right and wrong are made so clear, who could fail to take faith?

"And yet, when I look at the world around me, I find that, from the supreme ruler on down to the numberless common people, all place deep trust in the Nembutsu, Shingon, Zen and Ritsu teachings. Since I have been born in this land, how could I go against the example of the ruler?

"Moreover, my parents and ancestors all put their faith in the principles of the Nembutsu and other teachings, and in that faith they ended their lives and vanished into the clouds of the other world.

"Here in Japan, there are, to be sure, a great many people, both eminent and humble. Yet, while those who adhere to the provisional teachings and the sects based upon them are numerous, I have yet to hear the name of a single individual who puts faith in the teachings that you have been explaining. Therefore, leaving aside the question of which teachings will lead to good places in the next life and which will lead to bad ones, and not attempting to inquire which teachings are true and which false, we find that the five thousand or seven thousand volumes of the Buddhist scriptures and the three thousand or more volumes of the Confucian and Taoist writings all emphasize the importance of obeying the orders of the ruler and complying with the wishes of one's parents.

"In India, Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, expounded the principles of carrying out filial conduct and repaying one's obligations, and in China, Confucius set forth the way of giving loyal service to the ruler and honoring one's parents as filial offspring should. A person who is determined to repay the debt of gratitude he owes his teacher would not hesitate to slice off a piece of his own flesh or cast his body away. Among those who were aware of the debt of gratitude they owed to their lords, Hung Yen cut open his stomach, and Yu Jang fell on his sword. And among those who were truly mindful of their obligations to their parents, Ting Lan fashioned a wooden image of his deceased mother, and Han Po-yu wept [upon realizing how feeble his aged mother had become] when she beat him with her staff. Though Confucianism, Brahmanism and Buddhism all differ in their doctrines, they are alike in teaching one to repay debts of kindness and give thanks for favors received.

"Thus if I were to be the first one to place faith in a doctrine that neither the ruler, my teacher, nor my parents put faith in, I would surely be guilty of the charge of turning against them, would I not? At the same time, the passages from the sutras that you have quoted make perfectly clear the truth of this doctrine, and all my doubts about it have been resolved. And if I do not prepare myself for the life hereafter, then in my next existence I will find myself submerged in suffering. Whether I try to go forward or to retreat, my way is beset by difficulties. What am I to do?"

The unenlightened man thus explained his plight. While the unenlightened man’s words may manifest expressions of his time, the essential issue that he addresses remains current today.

The response to his inquiry is related to the gosho passage on which we are focusing today. First,

The sage replied, “You understand this doctrine, and yet you can say a thing like that! Have you failed to comprehend the logic of the matter? Or is it simply beyond your understanding?

Then, he further stated:

"Ever since I began to study the Law handed down from Shakyamuni Buddha and undertook the practice of the Buddhist teachings, I have believed it is most important to understand one's obligations to others, and made it my first duty to repay such debts of kindness. In this world, we owe four debts of gratitude. One who understands this is worthy to be called human, while one who does not is no more than a beast.

"As I wish to help my father and mother in their next existence and repay the debt that I owe to my country, I am willing to lay down my life, simply because I understand the debt that I owe them and for no other reason."

The four debts of gratitude are as follows: 1) The debts owed to one’s parents; 2) the debts owed to all living beings; 3) the debts owed to one’s sovereign; and 4) the debts owed to the three treasures.

In True Buddhism, understanding and repaying one’s debts of gratitude represent essential practices that must never be disregarded. Thus, the Daishonin explained that he was laying down his life to propagate the Lotus Sutra, simply to help his father and mother in their next existence and to repay the debt that he owed to his country. He further explained that this represented none other than the fact that he understood the debt of gratitude that he owed them. Thus, one who disregards the repayment of his debt of gratitude would never exemplify a person who upholds True Buddhism.

The unenlightened man logically understood in his mind that heresy must be eliminated and that it must be replaced by the true doctrines. However, he felt somewhat timid and apprehensive because the heretical sects were practiced by his family members and ancestors. There may be people today who are affiliated with an organization such as the Sokagakkai, who may feel that by severing themselves from that organization, they would be betraying the people with whom they were associated. It is comforting to situate oneself in the company of many people. Moreover, by maintaining good relations with them, there would be no friction or stormy dealings with them. These are universal human feelings that transcend the times. True faith can be established when we are able to destroy such obstacles and seek out the truth.

The unenlightened man saw that there were many people who adhered to the dominant doctrines and sects in society. He realized that, by contrast, there were few people who upheld the tenets of the Lotus Sutra. He wondered why he should discard the dominant teachings favored by many people and choose to take up the minority doctrine favored by the few. The Daishonin responded in the following way:

"But the many are not necessarily worthy of honor, nor the few, deserving of contempt. People of wisdom and goodness are rare indeed, while fools and evil persons are numerous. A ch'i-lin is the finest of beasts and a phoenix the finest of birds, yet they are very few in number. On the other hand, cows and sheep, crows and pigeons are among the lowlier and commoner of creatures, and yet they are extremely plentiful. If the many are always worthy while the few are to be despised, should one then cast aside a ch'i-lin in favor of cows and sheep, or pass over a phoenix and instead select crows and pigeons?

"The mani jewel and the diamond are the most wondrous of all precious stones. These gems are rare, while broken tiles and shards, clods of earth and common stones are the most useless of objects, and at the same time abound. Now if one follows your advice, ought he to discard the precious jewels and instead content himself with broken tiles and shards? How pitiful and meaningless that would be!

Indeed, a task taken on by many people can be accomplished easily. In dealings in society and in the resolution of issues in politics, it is most desirable for the majority to prevail. However, in matters concerning Buddhism, there is an absolute distinction between truth and heresy. Even if we gather together tens of millions or even millions of people who are ignorant about the inner enlightenment of the Daishonin and who uphold erroneous notions, heresy remains heresy, and it can never transform into truth. The Daishonin wrote:

You should put the truth of the teaching before everything else; certainly you should not base your judgment on the number of adherents.

It is essential to base our lives on True Buddhism and its correct principles. We must never idly establish our standards of judgment on large numbers.

If a person believes in and practices a heretical teaching simply because there is a large number of adherents, he will inevitably create negative karma that will cause him to fall, without fail, into the three evil paths of Hell, Hunger, and Animality. Therefore, if we do nothing and remain uninvolved, we would be remiss in our obligation. How can we not warn our parents, siblings, children, and friends against their inevitable descent into Hell, when we, ourselves, are aware of the true path that will enable all of us to attain enlightenment?

The Daishonin has instructed us and our High Priest continues to encourage us to perform shakubuku. The performance of shakubuku is none other than the practice that we must perform to repay our debt of gratitude for being born into this world as humans and for being able to encounter True Buddhism in this life. Being selfishly satisfied with attaining one’s own happiness, alone, goes against the Daishonin’s principle of obligation or debt of gratitude. Those who lose sight of this debt of gratitude would be unable to attain enlightenment.

It seems as though most people in society today are caught up in their busy daily lives and give little thought to their world after death. Our lives are eternal and permanent. Our existence in this world is but a tiny segment of that life. Naturally, we will come forth to exist in the next life and in the life after that. Life continues eternally. It would be sad, indeed, if our existence in this life is peaceful and comfortable but our future lifetimes are characterized by continuous eternal suffering.

A person’s attachment to various causal customs and slackening in upholding correct faith and practice may bring forth the effect of suffering eternally into the future. The Daishonin wrote:

A thing to be boundlessly feared is the life hereafter; a matter of greatest concern is the existence to come!

(Gosho, p. 395)

Thus, the maintenance of correct faith and practice in this lifetime will guarantee the achievement of happiness in the life hereafter, without fail. If one loses sight of this and, for various reasons, fails to maintain a correct faith and practice, he would inevitably bring forth a terribly negative effect.

Therefore, if we sincerely feel that we must repay or debt of gratitude to the Daishonin, we must not begrudge our lives and we must exert our utmost efforts to warn those who are blinded by erroneous teachings and help them resolve their sins and negative deeds. This is, indeed, the true form of repayment of our debts of gratitude. It is none other than our performance of shakubuku.

Finally, I would like to conclude my sermon for today with the following directions from our High Priest:

There may be some of you who find it difficult to perform shakubuku. Being unable to perform shakubuku is a manifestation of one’s lack of power of faith and power of practice. Accordingly, if each of you, as individuals, uphold a courageous attitude to advance forth and continue to chant daimoku, your various hardships and problems will be correctly resolved. Then, your advancement based on the Mystic Law will be clearly manifested in your own lives. Please be convinced that your life, in its current precious form, will advance forth with great conviction and without any hesitation. Therefore, I pray that you will all redouble your efforts in your faith and practice.

(Dai-Nichiren, Vol. 711, p. 56)

I pray that you will all understand the message contained in the gosho passage for this month and that you will exert forth your efforts ever more, in your performance of shakubuku, with a sincere sense of repaying your debts of gratitude, for the sake of achieving true world peace.

I sincerely appreciate your efforts to attend this sermon today.



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